Yeah, I’m gonna go there. I know it’s not popular to talk across the fence on this issue. Feelings get hurt before you can even start the discussion, but I’m gonna try.
Before I say anything else, I want you to remember that I love you and care about you, regardless of our political differences. You, as a person, are way more important to me than any opinion I might ever have. We both knew we had differences when we met. In fact, many of you were surprised that I was so open to becoming your friend. But you became my friend because I like you despite our differences…and in some cases, because of our differences. And those of you who really know me well, know I’m totally sincere in that.
We agree way much more than the media would like for anyone to know. I totally agree that we all have the right to define our family as we see fit. At least we HAD that right. It’s disgusting to me that we’ve sold ourselves into slavery to the insurance companies. And I know that was a REALLY strong statement. But why do we let the insurance companies decide for us who is in our family and who is not?? If I wanted to add my mom to my “Family” coverage when she was living in my household, who is the insurance company to say that she’s not part of my family?? If our nanny, who is like a daughter to us, moves in with us and I want to add her to my policy, why shouldn’t I be able to?? And the same with your partners. If you choose to live as a family, who is the insurance company to say that you aren’t? And why do we tolerate it? You shouldn’t have to get a marriage certificate to conform to their standards. The same goes for hospital visitation privileges, court proceedings, and all manner of family decisions that we’ve handed over to industry and the government.
But here’s where we respectfully disagree – I strongly believe that God defined marriage at creation. I know that’s not a persuasive argument if you don’t believe in God, or creation, but I can’t pretend like I don’t believe it. To me, marriage is a covenant (a promise stronger than a contract, with God providing all contractual consideration) between God, and a man, and a woman. I don’t know why, but that was His design and definition. To my knowledge, He has never bestowed on any human the right to change His definitions. No person or government has the right to do that. You can try to call a relationship between two men or two women a marriage, but that just doesn’t make it so. The truth is the truth no matter what you call it. I think we could even call it a family, that term is much more fluid, meaning different things in different cultures, but not a marriage.
Now that I’ve stated our disagreement plainly, this is where all sorts of ugliness usually creeps in. But I don’t believe in all that either. I know you’ve been subjected to every kind of hate from people who share my opinion on the gay marriage issue. Please believe me when I say, that’s about the only thing we agree on. I don’t hate you and I don’t believe that God hates you. I don’t wish you harm or ill. I don’t think you’re a lower class citizen who should be discriminated against. I only want the very best for you. The God I believe in loves you very much. He’s ALWAYS on your side, and only wants the very best for you too. He’s the perfect parent who loves you unconditionally. Let me repeat that again for everyone who is reading. UN-conditionally. Nothing you ever do, think, or say can change that. Nothing you’ve ever done, thought, or said has ever shocked or surprised Him. He has NEVER rejected you, even when people who call themselves by His name have. Who am I, full of faults and mistakes, to reject you if He doesn’t??
I sincerely hope and trust that we’re still friends. And I know your kind hearts, and open minds, well enough to know that one more difference of opinion won’t change that for either of us.
Much Love,
Loralea
Well…you said it was quiet…so here goes!
This is the third response I’ve written to your blog. Hopefully I’ll post this one…it means a lot to me…each one before didn’t seem right. Those responses felt like I was getting off topic or sharing too much personal information or coming off as haughty or possibly angry.
I’m not angry at all. I’m blessed…so very, very blessed and so happy. Many of the online blogs or online posts regarding this subject showcase the person’s own side of the argument and how they are so RIGHT and the last thing I want to do is to sound argumentative. Being argumentative means you are not listening. It means you have some sort of wall up and you only want your way. When you’re not listening, you’re not absorbing what the other person or people are REALLY telling you. No one has to remind us that this issue has passionate feelings on both sides of the discussion.
What I understand from this blog and this question is a fear (maybe fear isn’t a good word)…okay…a strong concern that gay people marrying each other is a phenomenon that will profoundly affect traditional marriage.
I hear ya.
This concept is new. Heck, it’s new to me and I’m married to a guy.
And…it is the best thing that has ever happened to me.
It is something I thought I would never have and something from which I’ve always believed I would be excluded. After we stated our vows something shifted deep within me and I view this relationship as the most valuable thing in my life. I no longer have a boyfriend who can leave if things get tough, if we have a serious disagreement or if he gets bored (how could anyone get bored with me, right?). He’s got to now drive all the way to Iowa and convince a judge I’m a big enough schmuck for him to be allowed to kick me to the curb.
If anything, let this response show that I can relate to the value you place on your marriage because I feel it now too.
I’m still tempted to go into a personal story…but I won’t…it doesn’t seem to fit this thread right now – though I’m happy to tell it elsewhere if anyone is interested. And I’m sorry this reply has turned into a short novel, but hey…you said it was getting quiet in here.
Basically, I’ve fought my way through a life where I started out leaving high school with absolutely no hope. Being gay in a Southern US small town and being raised in a fundamentalist Christian perspective of Biblical literature is excruciating for GLBT teens because there’s absolutely no way for them to be their innate selves and still fit in with the culture in which they were raised. Many move away as soon as possible or are kicked out of their families and many as I’ve known, end up taking their own lives.
God is many things to many people…as a species were are truly ‘wired for God’. Over a long process I was finally able to find a community of faith where I can begin to cultivate my relationship with God in my own way. I value my faith because it was hard fought and something I thought I’d lost but was with me all the time – I just had to recognize it and receive it.
My views of God have changed radically in my life’s journey and for this I’m grateful. ‘We’re all here to learn to love him’ are some lyrics from an old Amy Grant song that stick with me. To try and even categorize the various forms of Christianity would be a serious undertaking. I know from my childhood that Christians believe their understanding of God and Jesus is the only true way. I’ve also learned that this strong belief by Christians in Nashville, Tennessee, means little to a villager in India who is Hindu, just as her family has been for the last thousand years, or to a monk exiled from Tibet who lives his life studying the peaceful methods of Buddha or even the angry young man ready to die for his complete and utter belief in Allah. We may hold our own beliefs, but we set ourselves up for failure when we stop at least trying to see that these beliefs are held just as passionately if not more so by others in their own way.
The authors of the Constitution seemed to understand this. These were people sick of the religious repression from their home across the ocean…but the experience with that repression and religious power back home had taught them that this new nation had to have a way of limiting the power of one faith so that it allows other faiths to thrive. These guys were deists and with a firm belief in God…they also had a firm, life-changing belief in the potential of people when they are truly free. Thomas Jefferson even went so far as to cutting out parts of the Bible down to only those phrases spoken by Jesus…and then even only those phrases that sounded like what Jesus would have truly spoken! Talk about asking for trouble in those days.
What they meant to do was to make a divide between the hundreds or thousands of interpretations and beliefs out there and the personal freedom of a citizen in their new nation. Thank God they did…you’re now able to go to a Christian church of your choice…and leave should you find reason to disagree…and I am able to go to my Religious Science church and study God and scripture as it feels right to me!
Now…marriage.
Marriage as it is described in the Bible seemed to allow men in some areas much more than just one woman – but that’s a whole ‘nother topic.
The act of getting married to someone of the opposite sex now in the United States immediately grants you a varied collection of benefits. This is great because it encourages people to get married, to stay married and to form a protective unit for each other and any children that may come into the picture. These benefits are granted to you whether you were high school sweethearts and have a true, loving relationship…or if you are drunken strangers who wake up together in Vegas wearing matching rings (this is probably the part that really burns most gay people…just so you know…).
Here is where I believe you will find the majority of gay people engage in the marriage debate. These gay or lesbian people have (or they want) the one person in their life that they adore…they’ve made their way out of the fog and despair of living in denial or living in the closet and they are finally happy and not ashamed to say ‘this is the person I love and with whom I want to build my life!’
Then they find out (as I’ve had friends who did) that should one of them die and they don’t have the legal wording correct on one of their many wills needed or they don’t have a will at all…that the home they’ve built together, the money they’ve saved together and the life they built together, even the children they have together can be quickly snatched…legally…by their partner’s family whether or not they respected the relationship at all to begin with. I think that you having gay friends, and being a normal human being would see this is not fair in any shape or fashion.
If you think that gay couples should just have wills to protect their relationship…take a trip to a lawyer who specializes in such arrangements and you will see this is an extremely complex process depending upon the wealth of the couple…and one with no true guarantee that will hold up in court in the event of a death.
Also, insurance…I’m lucky enough to work for a company that provides domestic partner insurance, but I have to pay taxes on that benefit like it is income and heterosexual couples do not. I’m not complaining…because I’m grateful…but you can see the levels of unfairness seem to compound.
So…we have this issue of benefits afforded to one group and not afforded to another…simply because of the sex of one of the people in the union.
Were we to re-invent the wheel and call a government sanctioned union between two people a civil union for everybody – we could. Then, if you want to have it sanctioned by your belief system you go right ahead and we can call that a marriage – but – then, you have the issue of churches like mine, who respect and applaud gay marriages and we would still call them marriages so it’s not a tidy cleanup for this theoretical situation…but hey…the chances of people in the U.S. chunking the ‘marriage’ baby out with the bathwater on this issue is basically nil.
So…this is why your gay and lesbian friends are pursuing marriage equality. Because right now it’s not equal and there are G & L families with kids are now being seriously affected by this inequality. I think by now, we’re all familiar with this argument and I’ve just expounded for those who are still reading at this point and may not know.
We realize you’re not happy with the way this intrudes on your view of your own marriage, or of traditional marriage, but we’re not asking to affect your marriage in any way…only to have our marriages awarded the same benefits and protections.
I’ve been married to Alex since last August and I don’t believe this has diminished your relationship to your husband in any way. Please do not think that I do not understand your issue – I do – it’s just that I am not willing to forfeit my happiness, my partner’s happiness nor our way of life to make you feel better about a religious belief you hold that I do not. I wish it weren’t this way, but it is. Perhaps it can be a growing point for us.
My partner and I are fighting an immigration battle to remain in the US. His family members are all residents and soon to be citizens and he was purposefully left off the list of his brothers and sisters by a cruel stepfather. It’s another story, but he has no family in Mexico…they’re all here and he’s in removal proceedings. Now, with our marriage, we stand a chance of changing that. We’re filing an I-130 petition as a married couple and with this President’s administration’s understanding of the situations of bi-national gay couples such as us, we are knowing that through prayer and the loving support of our families, friends and our church family that all is in Divine Order.
I mean to say this is a struggle for us – not something we take lightly at all…a very expensive struggle and one that would not even be happening were our marriage recognized federally. We could be angry but we’re not…we’re grateful…we’re learning. Should Alex be deported…I will go with him and we’ll make it together there. I will leave my family and leave with him to a country I do not know. I said ‘for better or worse’ and I meant it. I’ve come to a peace with God in my understanding that should this happen, it is also in Divine Order and it’s a new chapter for me…but it’s not my preference at all.
I understand the objections from those people of specific faiths…but in my current situation with the one person I truly love and have begun to build my life with…forgive me if I say that fairness must prevail.
That is my side of the story…I hope it helps someone else understand why I am excited about our President’s recent announcement and I hope it can help those of us with different beliefs and faiths begin to understand the underlying passions behind this issue.
I’ve included a link to a great webpage listing just some of the very important federal benefits of marriage denied gay couples. I’d be happy with you calling our union a civil union but you’d still be basically saying our relationship was not as valuable as yours.
http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/an-overview-of-federal-rights-and-protections-granted-to-married-couples
Immigration Law
Currently, U.S. immigration law does not allow lesbian and gay citizens or permanent residents to petition for their same-sex partners to immigrate. Approximately 75% of the one million green cards or immigrant visas issued each year are granted to family members of U.S. citizens and permanent residents. However, those excluded from the definition, under current immigration law of family, are not eligible to immigrate as family. Such ineligible person include (but are not limited to) same-sex partners and unmarried heterosexual couples.
Each year, current law forces thousands of lesbian and gay couples to separate or live in constant fear of deportation. In some cases, partners of lesbian and gays face prosecution by the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), hefty fines and deportation and U.S. citizens are sometimes left with no other choice but to migrate with their partner to a nation whose immigration laws recognize their relationship. This creates a tremendous hardship, not only for those involved, but for their friends and family, and leads to a drain of talent and productivity for our country.
Jody
Loralea: my thoughts are similar to your thoughts. I conclude with two remarks: First, if Christians can lead by example, not just words, then any ‘whosoever’ plays by the river of living water will get wet. Secondly, how many Christians feel comfortable inviting a gay person, a transgender person, or a tansvestite to church, to a prayer group, a bible study, etc and know that the attendees will welcome that person? I am not so sure we would have a unanimous vote on this one. That is more saddening than the sin of homosexuality. I believe Jesus is concerned and weeps over both.
First, thank you for the offer to comment.
Second, your words are very sweet and sincere, but Christianity did not create marriage. In fact your opinion about marriage although understandable from a “blinded” understanding of marriage does not reflect a consensus of current Christian thought on marriage. I know many Christians as well as other faiths and philosophies that welcome gay marriage as a life commitment and ceremony for the members of their belief systems. And no religion should control the legal matters of a people. That’s one of the tenants our country was founded upon: freedom of religion, which includes not having or practicing one.
So yes, your argument regarding not allowing gay marriage merely on religious beliefs has many holes and to me represents an archaic, class system. This same argument was used in the past to prohibit inter-racial marriage. I would like to hear your views on inter-racial marriage as well.
Personally, I think marriage is folly. With the exception of the legal rights, marriage lacks much for me. I doubt I will ever need this as a validation of my love and commitment to anyone in my life. But for my friends and many of them that are gay, they feel otherwise and absolutely deserve the right to express their love through this process.
I’ll end here to keep it short. Much love and continued evolution on this matter to you. I hope one day this will all be behind us.
Hi Loralea…
First, thanks for the invite to share a comment.
Second, your words are very sweet and sincere, but marriage wasn’t created by Christians and for most of the world religion doesn’t and shouldn’t hold up for legal matters. And as a religious matter, I know many Christian churches and other denominations and philosophies that accept gay marriage as a right to the members of their denomination, so even within your belief system there is difference regarding this issue. So to use your religion as a reason to create a two-tier system of commitment and love is a null argument.
Third your argument has been used before by those opposed to inter-racial marriage and is sad to me.
Now, I don’t think marriage is such a great thing myself and I would just as soon not ever walk down an aisle or make such a spectacle of my love for another person. But I do have friends to which it matters greatly and I respect that. For me… the strength of my love can only be truly acknowledged by the person for which that love is received. No one else has to accept that.
But many of my gay friends want that formal, legal and social commitment and I respect them. And for that reason I believe they most definately should receive the legal and religious and soul-binding and family-binding and everything that should go along with marriage as you believe marriage should be.
I’ll keep it short and end here. Much appreciation for communicating your feelings. And much love to you and your family and to all the families, gay, straight, bi-, interacial, and so on. May the day come when this is all behind us.